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SO TRUMP LIED ABOUT SENDING 'AN ARMADA' TO DETER NORTH KOREA???

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#21 [url]

Apr 19 17 10:58 AM

jryan80033 wrote:

dkswenson wrote:Was it a lie or phenomenal incompetence?

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This raises a serious question......should we be concerned that the military is not keeping the Commander in Chief up to speed on military operations? Or should we be concerned that the Commander in Chief is so confused?

Either way, we're screwed.

Does this guy even bother to read the Daily Briefings?,,  I swear.
He just got exposed on the bluff 'his Armada' was steaming right off the coast of Korea. 
  ,,, Ready, Fire,  Aim,, 

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#22 [url]

Apr 19 17 11:26 AM

jryan80033 wrote:

dkswenson wrote:Was it a lie or phenomenal incompetence?

--------------------------------------------------------------
This raises a serious question......should we be concerned that the military is not keeping the Commander in Chief up to speed on military operations? Or should we be concerned that the Commander in Chief is so confused?

Either way, we're screwed.



I think we should be very concerned that The President and his Press Secretary are willing to shoot their mouths off without knowing for sure what they're talking about, over something so incredibly dangerous.  Ever since he was elected people have been talking about the fact that people might not believe him when there's a real crisis.  This only proves we shoudn't.

Plus, it's fucking embarrassing.  

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#23 [url]

Apr 19 17 12:06 PM

...On Wednesday, after it was revealed that the carrier strike group was actually thousands of miles away and had been heading in the opposite direction, toward the Indian Ocean, South Koreans felt bewildered, cheated and manipulated by the United States, their country’s most important ally.

 “Trump’s lie over the Carl Vinson,” read a headline on the website of the newspaper JoongAng Ilbo on Wednesday. “Xi Jinping and Putin must have had a good jeer over this one.”

 “Like North Korea, which is often accused of displaying fake missiles during military parades, is the United States, too, now employing ‘bluffing’ as its North Korea policy?” the article asked.

 The episode raised questions about whether major allies of the United States, like South Korea and Japan, had been informed of the carrier’s whereabouts, and whether the misinformation undercut America’s strategy to contain North Korea’s nuclear ambitions by using empty threats.

 Compounding their anger over the Carl Vinson episode, many South Koreans also were riled at Mr. Trump for his assertion in a Wall Street Journal interview last week that the Korean Peninsula “used to be a part of China.” Although Korea was often invaded by China and forced to pay tributes to its giant neighbor, many Koreans say the notion that they were once Chinese subjects is egregiously insulting.

 “The 50 million South Koreans, as well as many common-sensical people around the world, cannot help but feel embarrassed and shocked,” said Youn Kwan-suk, spokesman of the main opposition Democratic Party, which is leading in voter surveys ahead of the May 9 presidential election.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/19/world/asia/aircraft-carrier-south-korea.html?_r=0
 

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#25 [url]

Apr 19 17 12:59 PM

dkswenson wrote:
Was it a lie or phenomenal incompetence?

It sounds like the Trump administration trying to cover for The Donald's unthinking bluster.
Either way, the message to the world is that there is no need to believe anything that comes from Trump.

Dissembling on North Korea, Trump creates a crisis of credibility

“Despite what the White House, and the National Security Advisor, and the Defense Secretary all said, the USS Carl Vinson was not steaming toward North Korea. It was not steaming north toward the Korean peninsula. In fact, while they were all saying that the USS Carl Vinson was steaming toward North Korea, it was 3,000 miles away, steaming south, in the opposite direction.”

"This is not normal."

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/dissembling-north-korea-trump-creates-crisis-credibility?cid=sm_fb_maddow


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elcymoo

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Posts: 51,973

#26 [url]

Apr 19 17 1:12 PM

crankypant wrote:
dkswenson wrote:
Was it a lie or phenomenal incompetence?

It sounds like the Trump administration trying to cover for The Donald's unthinking bluster.
Either way, the message to the world is that there is no need to believe anything that comes from Trump.

Dissembling on North Korea, Trump creates a crisis of credibility

“Despite what the White House, and the National Security Advisor, and the Defense Secretary all said, the USS Carl Vinson was not steaming toward North Korea. It was not steaming north toward the Korean peninsula. In fact, while they were all saying that the USS Carl Vinson was steaming toward North Korea, it was 3,000 miles away, steaming south, in the opposite direction.”

"This is not normal."

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/dissembling-north-korea-trump-creates-crisis-credibility?cid=sm_fb_maddow


By this time, I don't think that anyone's surprised when Trump 'dissembles', but it wasn't 'prudent' of his NSA and Defense Secretary to mislead the American public and the rest of the world, whether it was out of ignorance or sheer incompetence...

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#27 [url]

Apr 19 17 3:21 PM

Am I the only one who fears that kind of game playing??

A person who is as evil and crazy as S Korea's "dear leader",  just might start firing off missiles at anyone he perceives to be "after him".
smiley: mad smiley: mad smiley: mad smiley: mad smiley: mad smiley: mad

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#28 [url]

Apr 19 17 3:30 PM

dkswenson wrote:
Rush Limbaugh is saying that Trump intentionally made this provably false and embarrassing statement because he wants to be unpredictable.


I don't care where you are on earth, no one can't hide a Nimitz class Supercarrier.
Are Limbaugh and Trump so stupid to actually believe the North Koreans don't know where every one of our aricraft carriers are at any given time, day or night.
​Trump bluffed and blew it.  
 

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#29 [url]

Apr 19 17 4:01 PM

admiral john miller here, in charge of admiraling the us armada thru troubled waters. president drumpf has sent a huuge carrier that holds many many planes that go WHOOSH WHOOSH and make big BOOM BOOM, and a huuge submarine that swims deep with the fishies and makes even bigger BOOM BOOM

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bkey

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Posts: 32,047

#30 [url]

Apr 19 17 4:05 PM

As far as I am concerned, this week brought perhaps the most dangerous and destabilizing events in the presidency of Donald Trump, and it has been almost completely overshadowed by a cavalcade of news such as elections in Georgia and the Bill O'Reilly story.

But while many of us may be preoccupied, make no mistake the world is watching - and is worried. For over a week, the American people and the world were led to believe that the United States was sending an aircraft carri...er strike force to the waters off of North Korea, in an escalating tension over the standoff with that troublesome nation over its nuclear and missile ambitions.

President Trump boasted about his show of force. “We are sending an armada, very powerful. We have submarines, very powerful, far more powerful than the aircraft carrier," he said. The National Security Advisor and the Secretary of Defense both reiterated the information. Except it wasn't true. The carrier USS Carl Vinson and its accompanying ships were heading in the other direction, thousands of miles away.

How and why can this happen? There are no good explanations. Incompetence, deceit, a lack of communication? This is how wars can get started by accident. This is how allies can feel betrayed and adversaries emboldened. Our world is less stable today because of this situation. And this was supposed to be the relative area of stability within the Trump Administration - national security.

The fact that this has gone on for days is inexcusable. The world's nations rely on being able to trust what an American president says, especially on an issue like this. More than anything else that has happened, more than the missile strike in Syria or even the worrisome congratulatory phone call to the increasingly dictatorial president of Turkey, this is a foreign policy debacle that is shaping world affairs in big ways. I hope you all take the time to read much of the fine reporting that has been done on this event. It is something we all should be talking and thinking about - a lot.

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#31 [url]

Apr 19 17 5:54 PM

bkey wrote:
Dan Rather As far as I am concerned, this week brought perhaps the most dangerous and destabilizing events in the presidency of Donald Trump, and it has been almost completely overshadowed by a cavalcade of news such as elections in Georgia and the Bill O'Reilly story. But while many of us may be preoccupied, make no mistake the world is watching - and is worried. For over a week, the American people and the world were led to believe that the United States was sending an aircraft carri...er strike force to the waters off of North Korea, in an escalating tension over the standoff with that troublesome nation over its nuclear and missile ambitions. President Trump boasted about his show of force. “We are sending an armada, very powerful. We have submarines, very powerful, far more powerful than the aircraft carrier," he said. The National Security Advisor and the Secretary of Defense both reiterated the information. Except it wasn't true. The carrier USS Carl Vinson and its accompanying ships were heading in the other direction, thousands of miles away. How and why can this happen? There are no good explanations. Incompetence, deceit, a lack of communication? This is how wars can get started by accident. This is how allies can feel betrayed and adversaries emboldened. Our world is less stable today because of this situation. And this was supposed to be the relative area of stability within the Trump Administration - national security. The fact that this has gone on for days is inexcusable. The world's nations rely on being able to trust what an American president says, especially on an issue like this. More than anything else that has happened, more than the missile strike in Syria or even the worrisome congratulatory phone call to the increasingly dictatorial president of Turkey, this is a foreign policy debacle that is shaping world affairs in big ways. I hope you all take the time to read much of the fine reporting that has been done on this event. It is something we all should be talking and thinking about - a lot.

The Bedford Incident :  Final scene

He reassures Munceford and Schrepke that he is in command of the situation and that he will not fire first, but "If he fires one, I'll fire one."A tired Ensign Ralston mistakes Finlander's remark as the command to "fire one!" and launches an anti-submarine rocket, which destroys the submarine.

Sonar then detects four Soviet nuclear-armed torpedoes are targeting the destroyer. Finlander initially gives basic orders to evade but then silently steps outside. Munceford follows frantically pleading with the captain to do something.Instead Finlander does nothing, knowing his actions have all but killed everyone on board the Bedford, as the ship cannot escape the nuclear torpedoes. The film ends with still shots of various crewmen "melting" as if the celluloid film were burning as the Bedford and her crew are vaporised in an atomic blast. The film's final image is an iconic, towering mushroom cloud.
 

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#32 [url]

Apr 20 17 12:42 PM

Who Ordered the USS Carl Vinson to Korea?

Here's the latest on our misplaced aircraft carrier:

Press secretary Sean Spicer said Wednesday the White House does not bear responsibility for public statements indicating that a U.S. aircraft carrier was headed for the Korean Peninsula earlier this month when it was, in fact, sailing in the opposite direction.

All questions as to why the USS Carl Vinson and its accompanying strike group were photographed traveling south past Indonesia after U.S. officials said the vessels would be deployed in the waters off the Korean Peninsula should be directed to the Pentagon and U.S. Pacific Command, Spicer said.

Well duh. Of course the White House bears no responsibility. Just because Donald Trump is the commander-in-chief doesn't mean the buck stops with him.

But I still want to know something: Who gave the order for the Carl Vinson to steam toward North Korea? Was it Trump? What order did he give? Was that order carried out? Or was it someone else's decision entirely?

This is, admittedly, something of a gotcha question, but it's also a real question. The chain of command starts with Trump, and we all have a stake in how well it's working. This particular mistake—if mistake it was—was fairly harmless. That might not always be the case.

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#33 [url]

Apr 21 17 12:14 AM

crankypant wrote:
Who Ordered the USS Carl Vinson to Korea?Kevin DrumApr. 19, 2017 2:19 PM










Here's the latest on our misplaced aircraft carrier:


Press secretary Sean Spicer said Wednesday the White House does not bear responsibility
for public statements indicating that a U.S. aircraft carrier was
headed for the Korean Peninsula earlier this month when it was, in fact,
sailing in the opposite direction.

All questions as to why the USS Carl Vinson and its accompanying
strike group were photographed traveling south past Indonesia after U.S.
officials said the vessels would be deployed in the waters off the
Korean Peninsula should be directed to the Pentagon and U.S. Pacific
Command, Spicer said.
 


Well duh. Of course the White House bears no responsibility.
Just because Donald Trump is the commander-in-chief doesn't mean the
buck stops with him.

But I still want to know something: Who gave the order for the Carl Vinson to steam toward North Korea? Was it Trump? What order did he give? Was that order carried out? Or was it someone else's decision entirely?

This is, admittedly, something of a gotcha question, but it's also a
real question. The chain of command starts with Trump, and we all have a
stake in how well it's working. This particular mistake—if mistake it
was—was fairly harmless. That might not always be the case.



That certainly was a real issue in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 when the Vice President was apparently giving orders to the Air Force about what aircraft to shoot down.  That ain't legal.

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